interviews
Where Will We Go From Here?
by Lauren Schandevel
April 6, 2020
This interview with Lauren Schandevel, the Macomb County Organizer for We the People - Michigan, a non- profit started in 2017 with the mission to build multiracial working class alliances across the state through community organizing, was conducted and condensed by frank news.
Lauren | I came on last year in June. [Organizing] is an interesting thing to try to grapple with and understand and explain to people. So I think it's taken me some time to figure out what exactly my role is in my community. It is also due to the fact that I went back to the community, I grew up in.
frank | What does your community look like?
Macomb County is an area just North of Detroit.
It's pretty blue collar. It's sort of famous for being an Obama to Trump district. It is where the term Reagan Democrats was coined. It’s very reliant on the auto industry.
I grew up in Warren, which is the biggest city in Macomb county. Warren is in the Southern part of Macomb County, it tends to be a little poorer and a little more diverse than the rest of the County. I try to focus most of my work on that part of the County, because that is where the most people are and also where people are poorer and it's easier to organize people with their material interests in mind.
How would you explain the work of an organizer, and the outcomes you’re after?
The goals vary by region [for We The People - Michigan]. We have organizers in different parts of the state. Our West Michigan organizer is focused on a campaign to allow undocumented immigrants to have driver's licenses. While our Northern Michigan organizers are working on a lot of energy, environmental, and indigenous rights work up there.
The direction I'm moving in is to build a more cohesive sense of community here in Macomb County. It's a suburb, and it has all of the trappings of a suburb, which includes isolation – people are not trusting or talking to their neighbors. But there's that added layer of people also being poor and needing help.
I am focused on community building and political education to create a stronger sense of community and belonging. From there people can advocate for their own needs.
Mechanically that looks like having one on one meetings, determining what people are working on, connecting them to people who are doing similar work, and supporting community groups as they arise. [Also] looking for opportunities to work around issues in the community.
For example, there was a spill a few months back that was like a cocktail of hexavalent chromium, cyanide, and PFAS, it spilled onto one of our nearby highways and ended up in some of the waterways. Identifying opportunities like that to pull people in to advocacy work or organizing.
Right. It's one thing in normal circumstances, but what does it look like now? How do you organize in isolation?
Yeah, I mean that's the question.
Have you figured it out in the last 10 days or what?!
[Laughing] Yeah, I've been at it for a couple of weeks. We started working remotely a little over two weeks ago.
In Macomb County specifically, I've been pulling together contacts that I already have here. We have a call every week with someone in our Congressman’s office, one person from the county health department, and a bunch of community members. People talk about projects they're thinking about launching. There are a couple of folks who want to do a seedlings project where they're planting seeds, growing them, and giving them out to people in the community when the supply chain is disrupted, if people don't have food or can’t afford food. People will talk about what they're thinking about, what they’re working on, and solicit advice. People who are interested in doing that work with them can be connected to them.
In addition to that, We The People - Michigan, is a part of a coalition of organizations called MI COVID Community. They are making policy demands to elected officials and thinking through what advocacy looks like during this. How do we get these demands met? Those are the big things for now. I like to think about the work as separate buckets: an advocacy bucket and a mutual aid bucket.
Can you talk about those two buckets?
Mutual aid is a term that's been thrown around a lot the last couple of weeks, but I think it originated in anarchist circles. It basically is the idea of communities taking care of each other and leveraging resources within the community to help each other – but it started explicitly as an alternative to capitalism. The way that people are using it right now is neighbors helping each other, which is fine and also builds power and alternative structures. If it's something that becomes a little bit more mainstream, I think that's a good thing. But I'm not an anarchist so I wouldn't know.
For me, doing mutual aid here has been figuring out what the needs are, identifying gaps in services, and then figuring out ways to meet those needs. It's really hard to develop a volunteer network where people are going out and doing things, when people can't go out and do things.
For now, that has looked like emulating some of the things that are happening in other parts of the state. For example, people are putting out newsletters to community members, talking about what resources are available in the community, what volunteer opportunities exist, figuring out ways to build community through that first correspondence.
Other communities have set up Google Voice Numbers for people to call if they need help. And so I think more creative digital strategies will emerge and people will start really getting the hang of doing this work remotely. But it's very beginning stages.
I'm working right now to pull together a newsletter with a couple of County residents just to keep everyone informed and aware of what resources are available and volunteer opportunities. That's the mutual aid bucket, which is focused on meeting people's immediate needs.
Then there's the advocacy bucket. Focusing on how this moment is, in a way, a window of opportunity to advocate for some of the things that we've wanted for a really long time, including paid sick leave and Medicare For All. Being strategic in how we do that advocacy and tie it to this current moment is really important.
I know there's a group in Michigan called Mothering Justice, which had paid sick leave on the ballot in the last election we had, it passed, and then it was repealed during our lame duck session in the legislature. They're looking to mount that campaign again and bring that back.
Apart from the actual advocating for issues – it’s, what does this political moment mean? I think at any point in history where you have massive economic devastation, there's always a choice made between two visions of the future. Either you're going to choose potential fascism, or a more progressive left-wing vision for what our country could look like.
I think when America emerges from the pandemic, and people are in really dire economic conditions, there's going to be a lot of competing rhetoric. We are going to hear a lot of scapegoating of China and of immigrants and of Asian Americans and of whoever else. People are going to be susceptible to that. Which is why it's so important on the left, to build a proactive counter argument to that, and make the case for inclusive economic justice that points the finger at the real enemies, which are corporations and rich people and shitty politicians.
There will be a rhetorical battle when this is over, which will really determine what direction the nation swings.
It's important to be proactive about what narratives we're putting out. Because if we don't put anything out, people are going to subscribe to the thing that they hear repeatedly, which is this right wing narrative, present before COVID, that says your economic conditions are so dire because of the immigrants taking your job and the people of color who are on welfare and the countries like China who are like stealing our jobs. That sort of stuff. We are going to see a lot more scapegoating, and we have to be really mindful of that and be really aggressive and combative.
Have your goals as an organizer shifted in terms of national electoral politics?
My job has never been organizing around electoral campaigns, so my work really hasn't changed in that way. The approach I like is thinking globally and acting locally.
I do organizing here and try to build community here and build trust and build power for people to fight for the things that they need and want with the knowledge that this strategy can be applied more broadly.
It's really a case study in human behavior doing this sort of work. As I learn more and more about how, particularly working class people, who I grew up with and consider myself a part of, how we think and how we respond to certain strategies organizers use, how we respond to political education and community building activities, is important and applicable for building a larger working class movement that cuts across race and ethnicity and geographic location, and can actually build meaningful power in this country.
How can people get involved?
There's that mutual aid route people have been taking. You're seeing networks arise all over the place. Even in places where mutual aid networks didn't exist before. A lot of these groups are pretty public on social media. There have been Facebook groups that have emerged in Michigan that are specific to a region. And a lot of it is just like resource exchange. If people are thinking through more robust volunteer opportunities, like delivering food and supplies to people and figuring out how to grow food for folks you could also probably find those people through those social media platforms.
Then there's the advocacy side of things. There are a lot of campaigns mounting from this, including campaigns for rent strike, and campaigns that have doubled down on the need for universal healthcare. Because we're all working remotely, those have been pretty accessible. And a lot of folks have switched over to virtual meetings.
I know groups like Sunrise have had a series of webinars that folks can sign up for. Every night they have training online you can attend to get a better sense of how climate activism and COVID fit into each other. I know there are lots of national and local groups that have done similar things where they've been hosting public meetings and webinars and trainings for people virtually.
What is the most urgent advocacy work? Specifically in an area like yours.
The rent strike, in the way that I've heard it used, is basically advocating for a rent freeze. A lot of folks can't afford their rent anymore. I think that's probably necessary work that needs to happen here. In Macomb County, especially because the Southern part has a lot of rental properties, and a lot of evictions, and a lot of foreclosures. A lot of that could be mitigated, hopefully through a rent strike if we're very thoughtful about it, although that's not something that I'm really planning for right now.
In Macomb County in particular, we have an older population. A lot of them live alone. A lot of them aren't on social media. One thing we've been thinking through that's pretty specific to this community is how we get the word out to those people and disseminate information to them, if we can't do it virtually, and we also can’t interact with them in person. Thinking through what flyering could look like, or what safe door to door delivery could look like, and it’s something we're still grappling with. Some of the most vulnerable folks are people who aren't very well connected as it is to their neighbors.
Have any of the tactics you've been deploying right now worked better than others?
I put together a Facebook page called Metro Detroit COVID 19 Support which has probably been the most useful and popular tactic I've tried. It’s basically a place for people in Metro Detroit to offer and ask for resources. Leveraging existing relationships, and pulling people into virtual meetings together so they can cross pollinate ideas has also been really useful. The last couple of weeks have been the strategizing phase of things. And I've just now started to try things with people in my community who are also starting to try things. I don't think we'll know what is really effective for a few more weeks, until after we actually try it and evaluate it.
What’s underreported right now?
It's really important, if we're talking about what work looks like in Michigan, to also connect with some of the organizers in Detroit, which was hit really, really hard by Coronavirus, because of all of the health issues and environmental issues that existed before the virus. There are a lot of people who have been doing work around those issues for a really long time who can speak to that. Particularly folks who are doing advocacy around the water shutoffs.
In 2014, 2015 Detroit started shutting off the water of people who couldn't pay their water bills.
That was also happening in Macomb County, but nationally it was talked about in terms of it happening in Detroit because that was where it was most prevalent. At the beginning of the crisis, in early March, our governor announced a moratorium on water shutoff which was great, but it also meant that people who had had their water turned off already still needed to get it back on.
There was quite a backlog because the city had three plumbers on staff who were turning people's water back on and they just weren't moving fast enough. So folks in Detroit, like Monica Lewis Patrick from We The People of Detroit (which is different from my organization and I know it’s confusing), folks from The People's Water Board, Nayyirah Shariff from Flint Rising were basically tirelessly both pestering the governor to mandate that water be turned back on and do a statewide moratorium, and also delivering water to residents who didn't have water through their taps. That is one snapshot of myriad issues that Detroit has faced and has contributed to the influx of COVID cases there. A lot of those are environmental and public health related. I think if I were to point you in a direction of where to get a better sense of what's going on, it would be with some of those organizers and activists.
Have you found yourself asking any new questions – questions you weren’t asking 6 weeks ago?
I also have all of the very nit-pinky questions about the virus itself and how scared I should be of it and how I protect myself. I totally get that.
From the standpoint of an organizer, a couple of questions I've had and haven't really had answered because there is no answer right now is, what does this mean for my community and the nation and the world? How do we use this moment to turn things around and fight for more equitable and just policies and to fight for a better world, a world that's more prepared to deal with something like this, but also can deal with it more equitably? How do we develop a robust social safety net for our most vulnerable? How do we see the humanity in people who are poor or incarcerated or undocumented and instill that in people so that this doesn't happen? Those are all questions that are emerging for me.
Where are we going and how do we ensure it’s better than this?
It's a huge moment for compassion and empathy. But it’s also a blatant example of systemic and institutional failures. Will those two overlap politically?
Oh my God, that's a great and important question. And I hope I can do it justice in my answer. I think that people are starting to make the connection in more subtle ways, right? I am also checking Twitter and seeing people say, “we are housing folks who are homeless now, we could have done that this entire time.” Or you know, “we're providing free public transportation. We could have done that this whole time.” Realizing that a lot of these problems existed because people didn't have the political will to make solutions happen. I do think, though, that we need to be really adamant and proactive and strategic about how we're making those connections for people.
That's why I say that this is an opportunity to really start fighting for the things that we've always wanted and needed because there's clearly a story here about how our institutions failed everyone because they're stacked against poor folks and in favor of wealthy folks. But if we're not telling that story, someone else will tell a different story. Being really intentional about crafting a narrative about what went wrong during this crisis, why it went wrong, who is responsible and then applying it to some of our other fights like universal healthcare and paid sick leave. But I think especially this ties in well to something like climate change where it does impact everyone, but it impacts them unequally. Because people have access to resources that mitigate some of the effects of it.
I read something the other day saying this will be the death of celebrities. Detachment from the real world has never been so apparent.
Yes – most obvious to people is the testing disparities. People are seeing celebrities with no symptoms getting tested and then they're seeing their loved ones dying and not being able to get tests or treatments. That is a very staunch example of what that inequality looks like. And it's really affirming for me, because I was already railing against these things before this happened. And now it feels like more people are sort of flocking to my corner and I welcome it.
That's nice. It's nice to feel welcome. There is sometimes a fear of when something clicks and you're like, shit, somebody has been telling me about this for 10 years and I haven't really realized until now.
It feels less good to be right than you would think, doesn’t it?
It reminds me a lot of the 2016 election when folks were like, Oh my God, this is so fucked up. We need to do something. I think a lot of people think that Trump is like the worst thing to ever happen to America, when there were all of these issues that existed before, and precipitated the rise of Trump – he wasn't just an anomaly. I think about this moment like that. Like there are things that people have been talking about for a really long time, like the importance of a universal healthcare system, and how unequally resources are allocated in this country. And this is a very stark example of that. And it's a very dramatic, awful thing that had to happen for people to see that. It's very similar to how I think a lot of people thought about Trump's election.
interviews
Impact Investment For The Circular Economy
by Rob Kaplan
December 23, 2019
Rob Kaplan is Founder and CEO of Circulate Capital, an impact-focused investment management firm dedicated to financing innovation, companies, and infrastructure that prevent the flow of plastic waste into the world's ocean while advancing the circular economy.
This article was originally published in our January Issue on Plastics.
How do you define a circular economy?
I think a circular economy is one where commodities and resources are managed in perpetuity. So that there is no waste, but instead it's a resource for future innovation and product manufacturing.
In transitioning from a linear system to a circular one – who becomes responsible for the end of life? Especially in a time where goods are globally dispersed.
Well, I think the answer is that everybody's responsible. There's no single entity that is responsible for how it's managed at the end of its life, in my opinion. That's why this is a systems challenge that requires a systems solution.
Part of the challenge you're noting is the aspiration of a circular economy with the reality of where waste exists today. Because, circular economy in many ways is an aspirational concept. Especially within consumable products. It doesn't really exist. As we look to invest in companies that can prevent plastic pollution and instead drive towards more circular opportunities, it is a matter of degree. It's not, we'll get there tomorrow in that perfect ideal. It's more about, we've got a lot of waste that's not being managed appropriately. How do we improve that in a way that can create value for those communities? And also prevent the pollution at the same time.
What do some of those solutions look like in practice for you and the companies you work with?
We've been looking at how to invest in South and Southeast Asia for the last couple years. I'd say most of the opportunity that’s "shovel ready" today is in the waste and recycling sector. They are usually startup recycling companies that are generally the first line of formality. Where they're buying materials from waste pickers as well as municipalities in some cases. And then adding some kind of value to it. We also see a number of recycling facilities. They're a little bit further downstream from the collection aggregation. We have started to see a little bit of reusable and returnable systems, but they're in a very early stage at this time.
When you work with a large multi-national company, such as PepsiCo or Coca-Cola, what does their commitment to this process look like?
They have two different levels of commitment. The first is they are committing to improve their own operations and supply chains. Almost all of our investors have direct commitments about what they're doing to increase the amount of recycled materials they use in packaging and design for recyclability. Then, they are also committing capital to our strategy to allow us to invest in companies that can increase the amount of recycled material available for their use and the use of others.
They are also providing expertise and resources, and network. They are providing essential off-take and the ability to buy the material after it's collected and sorted. That's a big part of the challenge. The market that's available to buy this material. Needing that kind of surety of off-take.
We’ve discussed circular economies from a variety of perspectives and backgrounds. Science, academia, advocacy. You approach it as a business. Why is your work a necessary part of the puzzle?
The particular slice of the problem we are looking at is plastic pollution in Southeast Asia. We quickly realized it was going to take many billions of dollars of capital to build the infrastructure required to really stop the flow of plastic leaking into the environment and the ocean. We started to look at where would that capital come from? And we realized that it's not going to come from necessarily consumers or companies, but really, institutional investors that are financing the future of infrastructure in Asia. The only way to get those folks involved in this space is to show them that it's an investable marketplace. That there is a track record. That there is a pipeline of opportunity. And that you can make money doing this. We want to demonstrate that investing in waste recycling is as boring as investing in roads and bridges, for which there is a lot of capital allocated.
Our approach to this was “How do you turn this from a waste stream and a cost center into a profit center as a way to unlock that capital?”
When you say infrastructure, are you talking landfills, incinerators? What is that infrastructure?
Our focus is certainly on the recycling and reuse side. I think there is a reality that they need to have improved landfills in Southeast Asia too. But we're not particularly able or interested in financing landfills and incinerators are out of our scope.
Has the China recycling ban affected your day to day?
Oh yeah. I mean National Sword basically turned the entire recycling industry upside down globally. In the markets that we're particularly focused on, they were exporting waste to China too. They hadn't invested in their own domestic processing. That has caused big problems for them and has created great opportunities for investors, who are trying to build those companies within those countries, under those infrastructure projects.
I think most of the countries we're working in in Southeast Asia have also started to follow China's lead and stop accepting imported waste. The US and Europe are not contributing as much to ocean plastic these days as we used to. Because the exporting markets have dried up.
I think there's probably a shifting in the future where more of that will go to Africa, right? Because they haven't started those bans. But most of Southeast Asia has already either halted imports or is talking about halting imports.
Does all of this help move the agenda of circular economies further?
Absolutely. It was so cheap. No one had any incentive to invest in domestic circular economy opportunities because if you were in Los Angeles it was cheaper to ship a container of waste to China than it was to Chicago.
That's crazy.
One important point that I've been trying to communicate lately is that there is no silver bullet for these solutions. It's incredibly complex. People really look for elegant, simplified solutions. But a circular economy is complex. We're not going to be able to reduce our way out of this problem just like we're not going to be able to recycle our way out of this problem. You need both and many more solutions. I worry about absolutists that are trying to push agendas rather than really trying to drive environmental progress.
Our approach is very much, how do we deploy capital as much and as quickly as possible to stop this pollution and make triple bottom line in the process of doing it? Rather than, you know, any political perspective or point of view, it's really just the view of the investor that we're looking to bring to the conversation.
All or nothing doesn’t work here.
Yeah. It's really complex. How can anyone say that there's a single solution to something? If it were that easy, we would have figured it out already. And I think we're also starting to see, because of the topic getting so hot and everyone wanting a piece of it, they're all saying, “Well, what's my contribution?"
Right.
My contribution is activism. My contribution is lobbying or my contribution is X, Y, and Z. And so they're all sort of piling on without a really clear theory of change about where they think they're trying to drive the progress.
Has the re-upping of investment from petrochemical companies into the production of plastic affected your work?
Yeah. One of the interesting things about plastics and circular economies is you actually want that feed stock, right? If you start removing feed stock opportunities, like PET plastic, which is what most beverage bottles are made of, for example, that's really problematic from a circular economy and recycling perspective because PET is the most recyclable plastic that we have today. You'd want to see more of that recyclable material out there. Right now it's cheaper to make plastic out of petroleum or natural gas in the US. It could be cheap to make it out of old plastics. That's where I think the big unlock towards the circular economy comes in. How do you tap into those market forces of building massive chemical facilities and use that as your off take for recyclables? That's the opportunity to change the game and that's your supply and your demand.
Are you optimistic that that will start happening?
I think the petrochemical industry is starting to show that they're really interested in that idea. I think it's really complex and hard to do. There's a lot of barriers. But it's not a technology barrier necessarily.
Is it a political barrier?
It's not so much a political barrier, I think but... Why do you think it's a political barrier?
Because of the political and financial incentive to produce and frack natural gas. How do you switch where incentive lies?
Yeah. I think you're right there. Policy is a huge part of that. Especially in the US where natural gas is so cheap thanks to policy incentives and new technology. It's not so much the same thing in some of these emerging markets we're working in, which is where energy is very expensive and most of that additional capacity is coming online.